Reviews of Second Nature Wilderness Family Therapy (Psychologist)

Stoney Badger

I was sent here at 17. Told the staff that I didn't want to live outside in the dessert and that once my pack and such comes on the third day (since I was rushed to wilderness because I got kicked out of Daniels academy.) I would be walking all the way out whether they help me or not. The first day and a half they didn't believe me, after reiterating what I was going to do, about 10 staff members rolled up to camp after supper. Didn't think anything of it until those same staff members were standing above me as i slept in my zipped up sleeping bag throwing down punch after punch saying "you think you can just say what you want to us? You think we'd let you out of here? We'd rather say you died at the hands of a wild animal than say you walked out of here. So after they were done pummeling me I laid awake all night. Come morning sure enough they were up and so was I, I had breakfast, cleaned up my site and then began to backpack out of camp until one guy (the marine) decided to stop me on my way out, when I wouldn't listen to him he busted my eye open and I fought back he lost and let me walk but about 30 minutes later they caught up to me walking towards where bases general direction was, they then followed me some 30+ miles out of the dessert to base camp to which they called the cops and tried to press charges. I was arrested and the bailed out by second nature to then be put in a room full of those same staff from before, now they wouldn't hit me though since my charges got dropped when that cute girl guide or what ever told them what had happened the night before and in the morning. This place is terrible, I have a deformed eye and ocular bone because of second nature. I tried to bring up the case with them and the courts but due to Utah law being how it is I couldn't do anything against them.

Shannon Lewis

Second Nature was life changing for my son. If your kid is not in the right place and if something is off, get them to Second Nature as soon as possible.

Alpharius Omegon

Through first hand experience I would warn parents from sending their children here. I spent fourth months at the program and after being released from it I have felt nothing but mistrust and hatred towards my parents, though I do not blame them for sending me to the program they thought they were doing the right thing. The program promotes conformity to the system which does not create real results, I have been in contact with most of the other students that I spent time with at second nature, and I have yet to find one of over twenty that has no relapsed or though the program was a waste of time and damaging, as for me relationships with my family have become distant and fake. I find that not single day goes by where I do not think of second nature wilderness program. The staff were highly mixed in attitudes toward the attendees of the program, some I quite liked and would like to have a friendship with and others were there as work and saw the students as nothing than that. In the program if you are not with it and confirming your life is made harder every day by staff with “consequences” which is a word that used heavily, even at the mention of punishment the staff be on you like hyenas to a carcass and dispute it with heavy intensity. The therapists are only available once a week in the field and you are given a single hour with them and that is it for the week. I found that the “therapy” was rushed and never made real strides towards a solid answer or focus on the therapy you required. As far as contact with parents goes there is little to none. You are allowed one letter a week and will receive one letter a week, in that letter you are expected to family counseling. Though counseling through letters in highly in effective and is easily squandered. In my time there I only was able to do phone calls in the last month I was there. In total I got four phone calls of family therapy where the therapist and parents are in a group call with you. These were more focused but 4 thirty minute real family therapy sessions for the whole stay is heinous idea and will to no real results. Another problem I would to address is that of the child “transporters” that some parents used lovingly referred to as goons. Goons are emotionally damaging for students of the program. They are kidnappers that your parents pay to take you away early in the morning or late at night and drop you in the mountains/desert. The fact that this even legal within the country is sickening. In the end I would warn any parent looking at the possibility of wilderness as a viable option for there child to seek better methods. This is not a drug rehab center or a fruitful method of counseling it is a money making corporation that is pushed by “educational consultants” as a viable option for any form of counseling.

Will Parkhurst

I got sent here when I was 17 by my parents. The things I learned about myself here changed my life.

michael atterbury

It made me resentful, it made me mistrustful of people and it made me feel like something essential to me had been stripped away from me without my consent.

victor Matos

We were very lucky to find Second Nature Wilderness or "the woods" as my little girl call it... From the first conversation everyone made me feel very warm and I got the feeling they really cared about the service they provide. It turned out to be a blessing, the therapists and everyone there took great care of my little girl and I thank God for a place like this and for people that are there to help you during your darkest moments and worst fears. Thanks and God Bless, Victor M.

Young Savage

I went to this camp 3 years ago and me and my friend Calvin tries to escape this hell hole but they caught us and Tracy Made me hit her bong and now I live with the nightmare of this camp every night... stay far away from this camp!!!

John Schaible

Hope everyone there gets arrested!!

Michelle Weiss

Went here when I was 15, am now 31. This place continues to haunt me. The recruter took advantage of my mother who was desperate for an answer to get me help bc I smoked weed. The process was awful. I was stripped naked, i was forced to hike 20+miles a day bc I was a "bad" person. We were forvced to eat peanut butter and ramen noodles and would not be able to eat healthy unless we could bust our own fire. After no contact allowed bc a therapist said so, 6 months later my parents came to take me home so I thought . WRONG. Tbe contractor forced them to.send me off

Brian Jones

Second Nature saved my son's life. He is now 22 and we have a great relationship and he is getting a college degree. I couldnt be happier with the results. While he is still negative about being sent away, he acknowledges that they saved his life and he has a great future ahead of him. Thank you Second Nature (and the theraputic high school he attended after 2N) for helping my son and helping me be a better parent.

RAFÆLZ

Being woken up in the middle of the night by goons and taken from your family is not a good way to start therapy.

Thomas Kaiser

I went to the program and I hated it at first but honestly it was worth going. Needs better food though so 4 stars. You also gotta sneak out at night and climb the Ego don't let staff catch you

ladonna barrett

Our daughter is Bi Polar, has ADHD and has been struggling with depression, self harm, suicide ideation, and sexual identity for years. We had tried IOP, hospitalization, and DBT along with intensive therapy for years. We sent our daughter to Second Nature and it has been life changing for her and our family. She’s happy and calm now and we wish we would of known about Second Nature sooner. The therapists and guidance counselors are amazing and they were able to really nail what our daughter had not wanted to share with past treatments and get her to open up about everything. I haven’t seen her at peace like this for 7 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if down the road she chooses to be a counselor for Wilderness Therapy to help others as they did for her. We visited her twice in the Wilderness and we saw how profound the changes were in her and how nice it was to be unplugged from the outside world while she learned self care, coping and getting “unstuck” with expressing her emotions in a healthy, loving way. We have grown closer as a family because of Second Nature and so grateful to have our daughter back living a full functioning life who’s enjoying school and her friends in a healthy way. We have nothing but great things to say about the staff and very well organized and they were great with communication while our daughter was away.

Joe

Wow. I just read some of the reviews from the kids. Pretty harsh reviews. I can only speak for my son's experience at 2N. It was not like the one star reviews from the kids. They are apparently lying. It's understandable that they didn't like it. They're not supposed to. Our son did not get "pummeled" and ridiculed for not defecating, etc. Nor did any of the boys in his group. They were treated with compassion, but firmness. This program is supposed to be harsh. If you're a teenager with problems sent against their will to a harsh enivronment, I expect complaints. But it's a true measure of maturity and growth to come through this difficult time with a positive attitude and an improved life. I compare this program to military boot camp in the sense that the kids are broken down and helped to see their issues before they're built back up. It took a good 8-10 weeks before our son was able to come to this place in his recovery. Jared, his therapist, was great and helped tremendously. This experience is not easy on the kids nor the parents, but one we deemed necessary as our son was depressed, suicidal and not attending (aka failing) school. He wasn't eating prior to 2N and was very thin. He gained 30 lbs in 12 weeks and was absolutely ripped upon his departure! Humping a heavy pack around the mountains for 12 weeks was apparently good for his body. It seemed to do him more good than playing video games all day. Go figure.

Grace Kendall

At first I really truly hated it here at Second Nature Uintas. It was really cold during my stay (January to April) usually in the negatives at night. The food is repetitive, the hiking was difficult, I always hated camping, the Unita basin is ugly, I was detoxing from heroin, benzos, and all my antidepressants at the same time, BUT I WOULDN'T HAVE WANTED MY TREATMENT TO GO ANY OTHER WAY. Wilderness was of course super uncomfortable, because it's not supposed to be luxurious or even comfortable at all! I hated it and swore to myself that I would never speak to my parents again for sending me there up until 5 minutes before they pulled up to pick me up from my graduation ceremony. I used to write letters telling my parents I couldn't wait for when they picked me up and brought me to Salt Lake so I could run away and become a prostitute for drugs for a week before I killed myself! I went so far as to say that I would rather have been married to the man who sexually assaulted me for the duration of my stay in wilderness rather than be in wilderness, but the reason that I am saying all of this is not to get people to not send their kids here, I'm offering it as a potential reasoning why people have written terrible things about Second Nature Uintas in the other reviews, stories of abuse, etc, which I find very hard to believe to be true, but I do find it to be possible that someone hated Wilderness here enough to make those things up. Going to Second Nature Wilderness program gave me a really solid foundation to move on and go to a Residential Treatment Center afterwards. If I hadn't gone to wilderness first, I would have most likely killed myself within the first few days of treatment. Wilderness, while it may seem not very safe to live in the high desert where it's cold for 10-12 weeks, is actually a very safe place to be and the only treatment intervention extreme enough to save my life. There aren't really any opportunities to hurt yourself, and by the time I found a cliff high enough that if I jumped off it would have killed me, I had been there for 10 weeks and realized I would give the whole "living" thing a try, and meditated at the top of the cliff instead. After I realized that there were no other options extreme enough for my issues with drugs, alcohol, suicide, and PTSD, I was no longer upset that I went to wilderness, and it gave me a really strong foundation to change my life. I learned how to be tolerable of difficult situations, and living with the same 10 girls for 3 months of my life really helped me work on my communication skills, which helped me get out of my next phase of treatment at a residential treatment center 3-6 months earlier than most do. I also learned to be less lazy, and to do a lot of things for myself. Please don't let angry letters from your kids for the first few weeks make you want to bring them home, the letters will most likely turn neutral and even hopeful by the end of their stay.

Galaxy Coin

I got sent here when I was 14 and I was changed. Send your kid here. It's a pretty blunt review and sounds fake but trust me, its not. I'm 15 and I saw the changes immediately.

Mental Health Professional

My intention in providing my viewpoint here is to allow the reader to evaluate any posted reviews – both negative and positive – from a dispassionate perspective. I will place this on several pages for private therapeutic programs, hoping that the anxious parent or family member can feel more confident in making informed decisions. I am a mental health professional, both as a licensed clinician and as an administrator. My employment history stretches across acute psychiatric hospitalization, residential treatment, outpatient counseling, and crisis intervention. Every position I have held has ended very positively and I mention this because it is important that the reader understand that I am not an upset former employee of any program or clinic. I am not a former patient of any of these programs. I am not in a marketing role and I do not intend to promote or discourage enrollment with any particular program. While parents or family members are researching programs, there is often a concern about whether these same programs are guilty – historically or presently – of abusive practices, poor clinical judgment, or unethical behavior in any form. This is a completely valid focus and does, in fact, merit scrutiny. Having established that, I strongly urge all readers to be cautious when reading frightening claims of misconduct. This is a very serious matter and it is unfortunately an easy thing to exaggerate (or even fabricate) for the sake of speaking ill of a program following a negative experience in therapy. To be dishonest in a published review of a medical or mental health service is highly inappropriate. It is, however, equally inappropriate for me (or for ANY professional) to automatically discredit any negative claims or to assume they are not factual in some way. I do not have those facts and I cannot pretend to differentiate the honest reports from the spurious ones. Likewise, it is not appropriate that I decide whether a participant’s perceived experience is the same as the provided one. Mental health therapy is very challenging for the patient – and for the entire family – and not every individual will do well with even the most supportive and expert levels of care. This is rooted in empirically validated research and helps us to understand why this sensitive work will more frequently invite negative feedback from the few over positive feedback from the majority who wish to carefully respect their family’s confidentiality and privacy. My recommendation is that you – the reader – closely evaluate a program by going to the most reliable and factual sources. Speak with independent educational consultants, with families that have successfully participated in similar services, with the licensing bodies that oversee policies and practices of these programs, and even with those that might be viewed as “competition” to the programs you are considering. You will find well-regarded and unbiased professionals that can share helpful insights about the other programs they know and have closely observed over the years. Lastly, if you are a patient or family member that sincerely experienced or witnessed abuse, neglect, or misconduct in any form while involved in a program – please report this immediately and thoroughly to the appropriate authorities. That is very serious and you deserve to be heard and for the matter to be resolved entirely. If, on the other hand, you are an individual who aims to publish a dishonest claim or to discredit a program by attacking their online reputation for your own purposes, please re-think that and remember that your readers are real people that are looking for help. Many of them can benefit greatly from these programs and it is unfair to them to be misled by an ingenuine statement. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I care very much about the difficult process it is for a family to navigate all of this, and I sincerely hope that this information can assist you during a sensitive time.

raine matthes

I attended Evoke Therapy, which is owned by Second Nature, and while there, one of my friends took his life. He had been sent there after a suicide attempt, still with stitched cuts on his wrists, and staff decided to not have him on any sort of safety watch. He killed himself the night after being forced to read incredibly emotional letters from his parents to the whole group, after crying for hours. Please don’t send your hurting children here. It is simply not a place of kindness or empathy. It takes tough love too far. I felt invaded; I had absolutely no control over my life. It is an awful feeling to have no rights or privacy whatsoever, and no respect from staff. I’m sure this program helps some people, but I would be extremely cautious about sending your children here. My friend did not receive the help and care he needed, and as a result, he is no longer with us. Rest in Love KB❤️

John Gabriel

Good people

Blake Wegner

"It made me resentful, it made me mistrustful of people and it made me feel like something essential to me had been stripped away from me without my consent." -Reddit user roflcyclone

Della Thompson

If you are reading this review, you are most likely a parent who is scared, and lost in the sea of information available on the internet. If you read the earlier review stating "kids are blind folded, told their parents have given up on them", etc. you are now really concerned and bewildered. Please be assured that none of that happened to our son. After reading the horror stories on the internet, we did not know where to turn. A friend suggested we hire an Educational Consultant named Andy Erkis, and with Andy's help we found Second Nature. This turned out to be a very positive experience for our entire family. Our son was never blind folded, or told we had given up on him. We were in communication the entire time, so he knew we were still here and that we loved him. We were also able to visit him in camp and speak to him freely. The living arrangements are basic as this is not a playground for kids, but a place to learn self worth. My son has said it was difficult at times, but he is grateful for the opportunity to have gone to Second Nature. He also has a new found love for camping and being outdoors. As parents, we are grateful for the support we, too, received. Second Nature recognizes the importance of the family dynamic and they provided ample material to support us, the parents, during and after treatment. We as a family have learned how better to communicate and respect each other ,and we are now using these skills to move forward. Second Nature strives to teach each of us to take responsibility for our actions - whether we are the parent, the child or a sibling. They do not sugar coat the world, but teach kids that THEY CAN DO IT! Lastly, Second Nature may not be for every child, therefore I highly recommend hiring an Education Consultant to help find the best fit for your child. We are a real family, with first hand experience regarding Second Nature. Best wishes to any parent or child who is reading this review.

Katherine Wilson

Finding the right place to help your child in a time of crisis is daunting. Second Nature made it all possible, from intake to discharge. What took place in the middle was a wilderness experience filled with warmth, respect and high expectations. As a family, we learned the power of trust and hope. Second Nature rescued our family and we are forever grateful.

Monica Mannion

It was a blessing finding a place like 2nd nature. The level of care and support was incredibly good. It’s very important to feel supported as parents , and especially learn how to communicate with your love one , 2nd nature staff helped us with so many things. We are more than thankful.

James Bratka

The negative reviews about this place are absolutely true and the response from Second Nature is absurd. People are sharing the same terrifying stories and the company is calling victims liars. My best friend went here when she was a girl. She's an adult now and I've seen first hand the damage it's done to her psyche that persists to this day. Parents, please do your research about this "troubled teen" industry and do not allow yourselves to be a part of this atrocity.

tricia eiden

I was sent here when I was 15 and I’m 28 now. I have to say I don’t agree with sending your badly behaved children away like this BUT the review written by Alex is absolutely insane. The only true part of it was about the hot water not being allowed to cook the dehydrated beans and rice. If we couldn’t bust a fire we had to use cold water with the beans and rice and that didn’t cook them at all so they’d stay rock hard, and it was winter when I was there so the water was ice cold. Everything else she wrote is preposterous. No one was EVER tied up or blindfolded (although I did try to remember all the turns to my first campsite so I could run away—quickly realized how far we were going so I never attempted lol). And we were certainly NEVER told our parents hate us or didn’t want to talk to us. And no one was driven to a residential home for a doctor visit. And there was no strip search. Going to the bathroom was never ever discouraged. Actually the staff made me eat prunes after I was there for 3 days and never asked to use the latrine because they were concerned for my health...I was actually “laying surfies” because I was too embarrassed to ask to use the latrine. I absolutely understand feeling trauma from this experience (although it wasn’t that bad for me—my 2 year therapeutic boarding school after wilderness on the other hand was extremely traumatic) but why make things up? I’m sure someone could think of plenty of other things that might make this a bad company. But again, I grew to love Wilderness. After 3 weeks I was in better shape so hiking became much easier which made everything much more enjoyable. The therapy sessions weren’t bad and the group therapy also wasn’t bad. Especially compared to that evil boarding school I got sent to after. I can’t say the therapy helped me really, I was an extremely hard headed teen who didn’t want help. But I am grateful for the things I learned about the great outdoors while I was there

Rafael Depper

I was sent here when I was 17. I was very reluctant to participate at first. Then being outdoors in the middle of winter grew on me. It really helped me to turn my life around and the staff were always very supportive. One of the most peaceful experiences of my entire life. Anyways, it was a great opportunity for me that truly turned my life around. Thank you to everyone who works there.

hex knives

as someone who spent almost 4 months at second nature just a few years ago. i can honestly say it was one of the worst experiances of my life. and recently i was diagnosed with PTSD from two separate therapists because of second nature. sending any child here...is simply abuse. as a response. i dont mean to be rude. but if you ever spent almost 4 months out in the wilderness against your will. includeing all the censorship you make the kids go through. not to mention that theripist's lie to parants and kids to foward there own agenda of actually "doing something" and the fact that most staff are just barley out of there 20's and have no clue how to handle kids. that being said. yes i would like the proper documents to open a case if thoes are real. edit: email sent.