We have all the opinions of people who bought the products of Tower Car Wash (Car Wash) near to the state of California.
As of day the firm has a score of 3.8 over 5 and the rating was based on 239 reviews.
As you can read, it has an average rating is high, and it is founded on a large number of feddbacks, so we may be pretty sure that the evaluation is very reliable. If many people have bothered to give their feddback when they've done well with the service, is that it works.
You know that we do not usually bother to put scores when they are correct and we usually do it only if we have had a problem or issue...
This Car Wash is included in the category of Car wash.
They do a good job
Too bad they are closing. Not sure where I'll get my car washed.
A bit pricey, but very conveniently located and relatively fast, even when busy. Good hours.
Tower used to be such a great place. Today, I took my car there for a basic wash - $24.99. After running errands I realized they had done a terrible job on my windows - one of the reasons I use a service. They were not very busy and I find no excuse for such a poor job. I will not be returning.
Every time I take my car there for a car wash the inside is always still dirty a lot of dust they don't do a good job in the inside of the car just the outside.
Met one of San Francisco Finest, Officer Danny. Tower Car Wash keeps SFPDs vehicle's clean.
Great place for a car wash.
Attention to detail has gone down in recent years for their hand washes. My car always has missed spots on the roof, wheels, windows. I usually have to stand around for a while before someone comes over to ask if I want a car wash when I get there, and they always leave my seats jammed up against the dashboard. For $35 + tip I would expect a little more.
They do the job, pretty much, but often miss things like wiping the hubcaps properly. $40 for a basic in and out, and rubber floor mats are extra, so not a bargain. And beware claims in the reviews that this is a touchless car wash. It's not. The machine spray water and so but no pressure and then attendance hand wash it with... Touch. Also, some days they are closed. Today it misted in the morning and my car needs a wash but all the carwashes are closed.
Yesterday went to SF and I had my car washed. Outside my car wash was fine, but, surprise!! when back at home, the trunk was full of plant pot dirt just as it was before....THEY DID NOT VACUUM. Not nice.
Best wash ever
Very efficient and fast
This place is great! They do a very good wash and the waiting area is very nice.
I brought my car in for a basic wash yesterday, and let me begin by saying my car was straigh-up filthy. I took it up to Tahoe the weekend before, and it got plastered with road salt, grime, dirty snow, etc. I normally handwash the car myself at a coin-operated car wash bay, usually the one on 16th and Potrero, but I did not want to clean up this mess. The filthiness of the car made heads turn, and I'd forget where I parked because I just didn't recognize it anymore. Anyway, this place is great for 3 reasons: 1) All hand washed. There's not a single mechanical brush or scrubber touching the car. Two men with what looked like micro-fiber wash clothes scrubbing down all sides. I watched, and they covered 2) Post-wash care included thorough drying and spot cleaning interior windows and wheels. 3) Cheap, for what you get. I usually wash my car for $10-14 at a car washing bay, but the time it takes me for wash then dry and touch up the interior is at least an hour, usually more. For ~$20, you get all this, done within 20 min of your time. My car came out spick and span. I'm definitely coming back. Get the basic wash, it's enough. If you want extra detailing on your car (spray wax, clay bar, carnauba wax, etc), take it home afterwards and DIY! This place is a great deal.
Amazing!!!! I'm so happy with the quality of their service! We got the interior and exterior of our Prius cleaned and they even managed to remove a really heavy paint scratch!!!!! Holy cow!!!! I've washed this car a few times and it has never come off, this is the first time at tower car wash and we almost didn't recognize our car! 5 star service for sure
Paid 69.00 for a hand wash and hand wax. Nice hardworking service employees, but lack direction and my car had many areas that they missed, wax and vacuum. But once I pointed it out, they where happy to take care of it. I only am giving 3 stars because of the value since it is on the expensive side.
The car was covered in sand and so much dirt on the windscreen it was hard to see out! When they car was cleaned it looked and smelled great! (They even refilled the windscreen wiper water when I noticed I'd run out). I'm so happy I chose Tower Car Wash, because the service was absolutely first class, above and beyond my expectations. I would highly recommend Tower Car Wash' to anyone in San Francisco, needing a mobile detail and car wash.
Nice place, even though you don't get a gas discount with a car wash. They will always go the extra step to take care of anything you point out to them.
Expensive.
(Translated by Google) Or so sometimes things get lost (Original) Más o menos a veces se pierden cosas
Some staff are very helpful, others appear lost or not motivated. Pretty decent cleaning job for the money, but not thrilled.
Good service...a little on the expensive side but fair for the quality.
I’ve had several vehicles washed here and I’ve had one disappointing issue. Other than that their crew is good and organized. Their detail crew does great work.
Been coming here for a year or so, the service was good at first, then after a few times the hispanic man that shows you the different car washes, skips me, even though am the first person to pull up, and goes to the other people behind me. I had to go up to him. Just bad service. Then after my car is washed, I had to go over my tires to re-wipe them, after the dirt that was missed. Will just come to buy the many car products and snacks and thats it.
Quick work and good work, missed a spot or two but otherwise got what I asked for. Needed some touch up drying though
We went here first with a Town Hog coupon and were very happy with the wash. Then recently I had a run in with a pole in the Trader Joe's parking lot and scratched up my car's left side. However, Tower was able to get it all new again and for only $49 to wash, detail, wax, get out the scratches, etc.
Quick, but lacking in attention to detail. I had higher expectations.
Like this place very much! They allow pets on the car wash property. Love it!
Left scratches on my car when dryed
This car wash offers convenience and their employees were friendly. I usually bring my car here every week to have it washed. All of the dirt was properly removed and it was worth the price.
(Translated by Google) very good (Original) muy bueno
Nice and fast and not too expensive. At first I thought it was a great job, but then after a few days I noticed several places they missed. Not sure - but I think they had some "sticky/waxy" something in the soap/water - the car looked as if it was coated with something. I didn't want the wax or whatever they put on there. I would not take a nice new car there - perfect for an older beater.
Great place. Fast, friendly and excellent service. Opens at 8am, so a great place for a quick wash on the way to work.
They do a good job But if you're taking your car to get carpet cleaning, know that you will be waiting at least 2 hours
Bad customer service poor service unfair price never back agine and by the way i got on video one of the employees searching my car looking for something And then I went there to meet the manager He asked me to send him the videos He took my number and never call me back Should I upload the video?
Best bang for your buck when it comes to touchless washes in the city. A spider decided to lay eggs in my wife's car and when they hatched, it was quite a scene. Took it to Tower Car Wash and they cleaned the hell out of the car, inside and out. Haven't seen a spider or any webs since!
This car wash is solid for the price. Got a deal with Groupon for $27 for super wash. Friendly staff.
The car was dirty after they finish washing it.
Between Divisadero Car Wash and this I'd take these guys but $25 for cheapest wash?
Oh YEAH!!!!! THEY ARE GREAT. DETAILED WORK. I HAVE ONLY HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE IN OVER A DECADE.
We brought our 15-passenger van here after Burning Man for an interior and exterior cleaning. They did an excellent job and were kind enough to include a quick wash of our attached trailer. Unlike other places, they didn't try to scam us into paying an exorbitant amount for a cleaning and honored their fixed service prices. The only disappointment was that it took a total of four hours to complete the job due to how many customers they were helping at that time. If you're not in a rush, we highly recommend this place!
Excellent for my cars. Good service
Great place to get a complete car wash in SF. There are lots of staff and they are all nice. They offer a cafe, snacks, restroom, and an ATM inside. There is plenty of seating in the shade, sun, or inside. And they do a great job for a fair price.
Every nook and cranny was clean, polished and freshened. wonderful! I am absolutely floored on their level of customer service, quality of their work and the convenience they bring to the table!
These guys knocked it out of the park! The manager, William, was fantastic and all the staff were amazing!
The best car wash ever! Been coming here for over 2 years eventhough I've moved to Beverly Hills, but still have to drive all the way back here to let them take care of my car. Thumbs up for the best service & good price!
Worst service ever
Way overpriced and never even vacuumed under my seats or mats.
Visiting from Sacramento for a couple of days - bought the hand wash in and out - thought it was just a basic hand wash until I saw them cleaning the wheels and applying tire shine. Compared to a similar deal in Sac, I saved maybe $20. The SF Chronicle on the passenger seat was a nice touch. I didn't even have to wait long. I also liked the free wifi too. Nice job guys.
Amazing place! Good service, will come again!
(Translated by Google) Well detailed cars (Original) Bien detallado los autos
While visiting my 24 yr old son in San Francisco, my wife and I decided to attend to some needs of his 2009 VW TDI Jetta which he has neglected on a variety of fronts; cleaning at the top of the list. I'm from the East Coast, so when I pulled in to the car wash I didn't really know what to expect. Most of the car wash facilities out east are the type where the driver sits in the car and you go along a mechanical tunnel with plastic brushes beating the crap out of your finish. This car wash looked like any other except that there are a LOT of employees, and the sign said "hand wash" which was odd to us. As we entered the person said "regular wash?" and I said sure and he said $23 or so and I was surprised because we normally pay about $10-$12 for a straight exterior wash. Thinking it was "city pricing" I hopped out and immediately an army of descended on the car with vacuum hoses attached to what had to be a power plant for how effective they were. They didn't just quick vac the car, they vacuumed everything from the truck to the seats and obviously the interior floors and floor mats. That was only the beginning, over the next 15 minutes I watched people work on that car like ants on a candy bar. Astonishing is an understatement. Professional is not adequate to describe what they were doing. They used a variety of cleaning compounds to remove every scuff, rub, mark, and smudge imaginable and when they were done, the car looked like it did the day we bought it! Out east we'd pay at least $50 for a "wash" like that. That is really what we would call a quick detail because the windows were cleaned in and out, the entire interior was trashed from the lifestyle of a 24 year old drummer, and there were black marks down the side of the car that had been there for over a year and the man on the final wipe down carefully used a variety of weapons and cleaners to not only remove them but to remove any trace of them ever being there. Blown away is the only to describe our experience with Tower Car Wash. On a scale of 1-10, I'd rate this place a 15...yes, they are THAT good!
If you have the time go somewhere/anywhere outside of SF.
They told me it would be appropriately 45 minutes for the car wash. I have been here 2 hrs. Still waiting for them to dry the car.
For 30 dollars you get the whole car cleaned in and out and don't really have to wait so long. Longest I waited was 15 minutes
Fast, reliable, and convenient with various levels of cleaning detail.
This is my favorite place to get a car wash in San Francisco. The $19 package is solid value. The guys really scrub the bejeezus out of your car and leave it looking shiny and new. Even when the lines are extremely long the turnaround times seem pretty short. You're in and out in ten minutes, typically. And, my two young boys love the part where you wait inside the convenience store, munching on M&Ms and watching the cars go through the system that sprays soap on them. Keep and eye on Google Offers for the occasional 50% off coupon.
Little pricey, but they do a great job!!
You can get both gas and car washing services at Tower Wash. They are a Chevron station. The entrance can be a little crazy and hectic. They do have a nice size store with a variety of drinks, foods and gifts. There's restrooms and seating areas while waiting for you car. If it's busy, such as on a weekend morning, it can take a while for your car to be done.
Get my car washed here twice a month!! Awesome!
Pretty damn expensive! Usually they're pretty good overall. Today they missed spots and debris.they have a bad habit of changing all your settings as they wipe over everything! ANNOYING
There was still dirt on my car after a $30 wash, but I haven't found any better car wash in the city.
Gone downhill. $40 "Deluxe Car Wash" and my car is still dirty. Manager didn't care.
Decent service, but really confusing menu of options. Couldn't tell if I was getting bamboozled and upsold on various services that I really didn't need. They did a very cursory job of cleaning the interior even though I paid for it.
Pretty good for a gas station/car wash.
I must say, this place runs like a pretty smooth machine. So many people working at once, all in sync, is pretty great. When my boyfriend and I dropped our car off, there were 20+ other cars being washed, and we waited less than a half hour. They only missed a small spot on the side of the car. Otherwise, they were great!
Fast service and great car wash. Very affordable. Will use again.
I’ve been coming here for years with zero complaints. Half the bad reviews here are from people who pay for the cheapest service and expect a full detail. For $40 they do an excellent job cleaning my car the price matches the service. If I need a deeper clean I will pay for a full detail which can run$200+ at some places.
Didn't clean the inside of my car, more like wiped it down and didn't wipe the sides the deck, 1st time, last time
Great job. Even did the wheels which didn't get done at the last place I went to. Will definitely continue coming to this car wash. Thanks guys for the excellent job on my car!
Attitude no customer service I did the car wash car came out like the same way it goes in and did not even spot but clean inside I paid $45 for five dollar car wash
Did a good job on my SUV, & they're cafe was actually really delicious!
They did a decent job, and it was fast.
My favorite car wash in the city. They always do a great job.
Paid for a Deluxe Wash; I can still swipe dirt and dust off of the roof my Civic and there are several water-spots throughout the entirety of my glass. I highly recommend not bothering with the upgraded washes.
$39 for a 10 min wash that leaves your car covered in stains.
These guys are the best. 5 years and counting of great service. Make my truck look new, and I get it pretty dirty!
Expensive and didn't do a thorough job, plus damaged my car. Don't come here! Not worth it!
Pretty good for San Francisco.
For $40 they will hose down your car and leave it smelling like BO
New-comers, please rein in any inclination you might have towards making a hasty judgement; instead, consider some of the uncommon qualities that earned Tower Car Wash & Chevron this reviewer's ultra-rare five-star designation. For example, Tower's most-renowned and best-celebrated services [01] didn't factor into this review at all. Admittedly, it was only through some frustrating and, yes, super-annoying customer service journeys that I finally could personally grow and see this gas station for what it is, in it's own context. In more practical terms, that means: a 24/7 gas station (plus the usual air/water complements) located strategically at several intersections of transit that link into the larger urban & metro area [02]. With a bonus car wash during daytime hours. Tower is one's only option for food/drink after a certain time (not to mention, cigarettes, sour candy, condoms, etc). This specific part of the city is uniquely deprived of late-night spots that stay open ... arguably, an essential prerequisite resource that's needed so that arts, culture and music can flourish. What's more is that Tower's fuel service islands are laid out in a way that provides effective shelter from excess wind and cold [03]. In addition, there are functional power outlets located on some of the pumps. Plus, Tower's wireless access point pushes out a strong signal over a relatively impressive distance. Their wireless network is always available, open and without authentication or encryption. Tower also hosts two, large, luxurious restrooms for public use. Understandably, this is a major fault-line of friction between employees and "the public". There are probably valid examples of "being wrong" on both sides, with simple bathroom management becoming an epic struggle that denies victory to everyone. To go on, Tower starts every day with a small diner that serves breakfast to people sitting at a counter. The food can be rather pricey but the ambiance is priceless. If it gets too crowded at the counter, a second seating area opens up with tables set up around a television tuned into a local channel's morning news, weather, traffic and sports. The news combined with bottomless cups of coffee combined with the ever-more-frantic pace of a busy gas station in the morning is enough to get anyone jacked, any day of the week. As the morning becomes noon-time, people waiting for their cars to be washed & detailed flock around purple lawn-furniture tables right outside the doors to the gas station's central hub, where you pay, watch TV, order breakfast or browse through aisles filled with all kinds of sour candy, chocolate bars, bags of Doritos and Cheetos and a bunch of different drinks in bottles and cans (juice, soda, bottled water, water that sparkles, and the athlete potions engineered in labs to maximize electrolyte-powered physical performance, and etc). Hopefully, I was able to actually present this urban oasis as it deserves to be, within the most appropriate context, so that many more people can appreciate Tower fully .. FOOTNOTES =========== 01: Namely, their complete menu of detailing and auto treatments may have permanently put them on the map in San Francisco but didn't influence, in the slightest, the sentiments of a consumer demographic who are thoroughly alienated from and honestly put off by the ever-dwindling numbers of their peers who cling to some archaic notions of organizing one's life and/or family around automobile ownership (or, at least, long-term lease commitments). 02: South Van Ness, Mission Street and Market Street sustain the flow of mass public transit on buses, merging with personal automobile and commuter traffic, and furthermore with all sorts of commercial transportation. Located nearby are major hubs for BART and MUNI. 03: During late-night hours when this is most important, as long as people treat employees with respect and common sense, there's no reason why temporary relief can co-exist with the priority demands of the business.
do a good job washing cars
Very organized and efficient place. We did not have to wait long when we went on Saturday. Staff were super friendly and fast. Good value !
(Translated by Google) now (Original) sad
Been looking for a place like this since moving to the city. Great job!!
Just so so
Very decent wash. But 25% price increase for what?? $28 for a basic wash with no tire dressing seems excessive. Hope the owners are sharing the profit with the cleaners (higher hourly, better benefits, etc). If I knew they were sharing the wealth with the team, I'd continue to come.
Trash car wash. Not next time.
Top job! Professional and quick.
Paid for the executive carwash and it was so crappy. Looks like they just ran through the car and couldn't have spent more than 10mins on it. Such a rip off
A little long wait, but they did a good job on my car
They do a great job
Boom. Washed car. During busiest time, still only 30 mins
Car wash was satisfactory. Unfortunately my garage door opener was stolen along with a few other minor items. I called to report to the manager on duty and received little to no help. So after a mediocre $120 wax/shampoo that took over 2 hours (I was told 50 minutes) I get to replace a garage door opener Thanks Tower
Good car wash. Usually closed,even when they advertise as open. Call ahead
Love this place, always get here discounted services
Let wash
They gave someone else our keys and refused to reimburse us for our time when we spent an hour and a half with Ubers paid out of pocket to return the key. I expect to be paid for my time and they would not do it. The manager physically threatened me in his office when we tried to discuss the key situation with him. He used obscenities and acted like a typical street criminal. He should be fired. The keys he lost were worth $500 probably and he obviously didn't care about us at all. Seriously do not bring your family around this place. It's not safe. If your keys are lost, they may treat you like they are the mafia like they did with us. It was a complete horror story. We still may contact a plaintiffs attorney over this or maybe even the police.
Mediocre wash for $33, lots of bits missed on the outside. I’d already detailed the inside of the car before going thinking I could just get an exterior wash. Lots of streaks left on the windshield and glass from the inside, adding more work for me. The main reason for getting an exterior wash was to get all the dead bugs on the front off after a road trip, almost all were still there after the wash. Had to ask 3 times and each time a whole section of dead bugs was still left behind, eventually gave up and just tried to get them off myself. Dirt and brake dust was still left behind on the wheels as well.
Great wash for the price. 34.99 is the cheapest
l am absolutely floored on their level of customer service, quality of their work and the convenience they bring to the table! Every nook and cranny was cleaned, polished and freshened. Outstanding!
Interior barely wiped at all, in fact left a spot on drivers side door that I swear wasn’t there to begin with. Did not vacuum the trunk. Outside had several spots missed. When I pointed out the spots the supervisor explained to me that it’s because I don’t wash my car very often. Really?! The car is not yet four months old, lives in a garage at home and work and has already been washed three times, how often does one need to wash their car in order to get it clean at the carwash service? First and last time to use this business.
I like everything about this car wash they treat every car will cleaned. I think", if you have your car on the other side they have a very more detailed but also a little more money but as they do a very good job
O love this place
Car wash was clean but could have been better. Windows were left dirty as was inside console. Personnel could have been more friendly.
I made the mistake of coming here. They don't do good job on cleaning the even for a 30 dollars
I got the executive which includes wheel treatment but spots were missed. I didn't get detailing so I didn't expect perfection. Overall they did fine and my car was very noticably nicer. I went on a weekday morning and it was busy
Great car wash, good for a quick rinse.
Decent job of cleaning my car. Hard to get into though. South Van Ness is the most accessible entrance.
Car Wash was fine vacuuming and cleaning but not really all that great they look spaced out not be very attentive to customers for a simple wash n dry 30 bucks and it doesn't even come with an air freshener too much so little oh and thank you for the washcloth rags...
Paid them over $100 to clean my car inside and out. Sat I n front of the window where the cars pass by through the wash. My car never passed. Then argued to no avail standing in front of the exact same dirty car I drove in there in and still got no car wash. If I could give this crappy sh*thole less stars I would.
Definitely not the cheapest place in town to get your car washed, but they do a terrific job. The basic car wash is $23ish and includes vacuuming of the interior (including trunk) and thorough wash and then a hand dry. Overall they do a very good job and despite the lines they usually get the cars out and finished pretty quickly. Worth the extra few dollars over automated car washes.
The only place I go to for a professional job at a reasonable price , inside and out , no long waiting period , need a car wash? Try it , I'm sure you will like it
It's a touchless car wash. It's a little pricey, but they do a great job. It's nice that they have pretty much a full convenience store there so you can get a snack or drink while you wait for your car.
Opted for a $26 Super Car Wash, but my windshield was still dirty afterwards (dirty windshield streaks and bird poop).
Hand wash of your vehicle. People work quickly. We got a wash and hand wax for $70.00. good value
Didn't really clean my car good for the price
A bit pricy now, but still worth it. They recycle their water, or so they say. At the rate we're running out it doesn't make me feel so bad for getting a wash...
They do a good job but there are often swirls and other little scratches on plastics. If you’re super picky about your car, you may want to find a “gentler” wash. They have a detail department that does very well with the clay wax. But that starts to get pretty expensive.
Quality has degraded while the price has increased.
They charge 100 dolares for a carpet clean, and they haven't profissional work for that i was there for coffee damage, looking for carpet wash and the service was like a pig shop
There is simply no other place better than to have your car lovingly washed by people as opposed to a machine with scratchy brushes! If you were looking to have your car Express detailed or fully detailed this is the place to bring your shiny car because they will leave it showroom perfect when they are finished! The lines are rarely long because of the efficiency of the employees!
expensive left wipers on in machine did not vacumm well leaving trash and dog hairs had to request 2nd vacuum
Really excellent detail but you have to inspect your car
They stole my tablet
They do a good job. But car washes here have gotten increasingly expensive over the past two decades. Enjoy it while you can. I hear that this place, like the late, lamented Goodwill store diagonally opposite this service station, is slated for demolition as part of the "Hub" district master renewal plan for San Francisco.
Nice restrooms
(Translated by Google) Very good (Original) Muy bueno
Great prices and quality work. Highly recommended.
LLP
Expensive however brilliant service
Good location: only full touchless service left in SF? Cheapest $34.95
Stay away! Bought the most expensive wash, just to come home and find pieces of dirt on the car. When I came back to the wash, the guys that cleaned the car didn't react and continued talking with each other. I've asked the supervisor about it and they told me that this happens once in a while. Really??? They said that usually I'd need to buy the most expensive car wash to see an impeccable result. I told them that I did buy the most expensive package and they shrugged their shoulders. They didn't run the car through the wash again or issued a refund. But they did offer a 2 minute dirt wipe. This place is a joke. It's not the first time this happened to me. Stay away!
Excellent Tower Car Wash.
Paid $59 they cleaned my car but not as good was good amount of dirt inside and out side of my car I did cleaned it for much less in other places and was cleaner
Friendly and clean
Efficient. Quick. Expensive, but as expected for the area
Awful. You wait for an hour and a half, they spend about 10 minutes hurriedly wiping your car, call it a "full detail" job and charge you $100 for it. And on top of it my car was still obviously dirty when they returned it to me.
They do a really thorough cleaning for a reasonable price. Convenient location too.
They do not know clean cars
Need your vehicle wash this is the place
Good job done, but not cheap
They do magic here. Black magic.
I went to jhon and found that my back windshield washer broke off after I went through the wash. Why 4 stars then???? Because the customer service afterwards was fantastic. Cedric the owner personally contacted me and saw that the wiper was replaced at no cost to me. I was really impressed by his professionalism and how he took ownership for what happened. I would be happy to support this business solely on the fact that their customer service is outstanding!
I don't always get my car washed but when I do I come to Tower Car Wash. Decent prices for a complete hand wash. They do a pretty good hand wax too. They also don't have an excessive "dirty" charge like other car washes in town. I would avoid going on a weekend.
Hard to find a car wash service like this that does a decent job in SF (outside SF, they do a better job in general, I've noticed) but this place is much better than anyone anyone else in SF. Best place in the city, IME. Where the SFPD go to get their cars washed, too.
Small scratches and car was not done well - not worth 65 dollars!
My favorite place to get a car wash in SF. Fast, easy, central, comfortable place. It is expensive though. Would love a cheaper option but I haven't found anything as good in town.
Seems to be out of order often. Other than that, it's decent
Excellent hard-working staff!!
Worst car wash in SF. Shoddy service. Takes 2-3x longer than promised. Do not trust anything anyone who works here says. Touchless on Divis is a wayyyy better choice. Avoid this like the plague.
My Husband and I have been loyal customers since the car wash opened in 1997-1998. Today we both arrived to have our cars washed, and noticed they have increased the rates by 21% or $5 per wash/per car. For both of us to continue having our cars washed, it will cost us close to $70 per week. This is ridiculous! With this extreme rate increase, we won't be back! Leo and Kimberly